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alice phallus
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I think it's laughable to imply that one's sexual proclivities are morally or ethically better than another's. ESPECIALLY when we all operate under the umbrella of prostitution. - Buttman 007
Fcuk, I thought they really lub me. 555. They all told me, 'I wait for you and take care you'. I was hooked. Then they confirmed it with, ' You hansum man, have good heart,my friend you.' Or similar. And I never saw an umbrella anywhere?
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 9:34 pm on Dec. 22, 2007
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Buttman 007
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There is no moral difference between the customer who spends his money at Demonia, and the customer who spends it at SOL, or the customer who spends a night of debauchery in his hotel room.
None. Zip. Zero. Zilch.
Making sweeping, derogatory presumptions about those who enjoy places like Demonia, while you are next door paying girls that are half your age to swallow your daily dose of well-aged spunk is bigotry and irony in its most delusional form.
We are all players in same game, no matter how much one's fragile ego wants to believe they are different, better or superior than the guy in the brothel next door.
BDSM is not abuse. And for those that cannot fathom it otherwise, they simply don't see it past the surface. Stuck on abuse?--then what is the difference between spanking a girl for money, or paying a girl to swallow your spunk? Or paying a girl to fondle her in a go-go all night? In terms of abuse, what is the moral difference between any money-for-sex exchange? Within a city full of prostitution, what is abusive and what isn't?
I would imagine that if you are an active participant in the Bangkok nightlife, then you must have a rather open and tolerant view on prostitution, as a whole. I certainly do. It's somewhat maddening when I see some people believing that their world of decadence is somehow more virtuous than others, labeling some venues as abusive, but certainly not their own. It's pure delusion masking their fragile, guilty ego.
As someone who has a very tolerant mind towards prostitution, my view of abuse is simple: If you push a woman beyond her boundary then you are abusing her. It does not matter if you're in a BDSM club, SOL, Eden, a Nana go-go, or your hotel room. If the woman gives you a boundary, and you cross it, then you have crossed the line from prostitution to abuse.
If I were debating abuse with someone biased against prostitution, I would expect them to say that every venue of prostitution is abusive. And I would have respect for that opinion, as well.
But for the guy fully immersed in the Bangkok nightlife, fully involved in prostitution, and shooting loads of spunk on the faces of girls everywhere, I cannot fathom how they can distinguish their moral behavior from one monger to another. If you wish to play the abuse card, how could you possibly charge others with abuse, and not yourself? Spunking's ok, but not spanking?
Lastly, to talk of one's daughters as a way to shine the light of abuse on one particular venue of sexuality and not others is pure melodrama. No one on earth wants to see their daughters in that light. It's such a melodramatic, meaningless point.
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Bangkok Women : Meet Sensual Bangkok Women
Posted on: 2:27 am on Dec. 23, 2007
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seajohn
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I agree with the point of your post, Buttman007, but I am not sure who you are responding to. Maybe I missed something. Yes, I do find a poster mentioning his daughters--that part. But I don't find anyone, who likes any of the activities you mentioned, claiming that it was morally superior to any other.
You're right, that would be absurd.
But if someone did make this claim, and I missed it, I sincerely apologize for my oversight.
I hope you did not believe that merely because I was pursuing an inquiry into the subject of Thai bargirls' consensus in a kind of venue that I am unfamiliar with, but which has a reputation (which may be incorrect) of being related to Sado-Masochism, that I would make such a ridiculous claim.
And I do not believe that my line of (polite) questions reflects any implicit claim of this nature either. I think that asking such things (as about consensuality) is interesting to clients of every venue of prostitution. Especially this one, as it is so crucial to its activities, as submale points out clearly.
For asking, I have, in my opinion, been rewarded with diverse and informative responses, once the posters have realized I mean no threat or condemnation. I am grateful for that. Truly, my only knowledge of this whole kind of entertainment was the 3 bold novels I read authored by the Marquis De Sade, who directly promoted the satisfaction gotten at the expense of another's pain, and that pain being the crucial and desired stimulus to pleasure: the more, the better. Therefore, I see nothing wrong with my inquiry, as naive as it may have seemed. However, after my questions, and the interesting comments on this thread by those more experienced than myself, I can more realistically develop my views.
Thanks again.
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Thai Girls : Meet Sexy Thai Girls
Posted on: 3:57 am on Dec. 23, 2007
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thailien
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Well said, 007. I agree 100% "Spunking's OK, but not spanking?" Good one.
For me and I think most others, whatever turns us on sexually isn't really a matter of free will, is it? I didn't choose to be a heterosexual. It amazes me that some guys prefer other guys for sex. I can't comprehend that very well, with all the lovely ladies around. But they do. I guess they can't choose their sexuality either. Who would choose to be gay, with all the problems of that lifestyle? I dunno. I'm thankful to be straight.
My penis chooses for me in these matters. It reacts much more favorably to slender women than fat ones. It likes Asians better than white women. It greatly prefers a pussy to a mouth, or a hand. It swells in the Dom role, but just feels soft and silly as a sub.
So I'm willing to pay for spanking and other fun stuff, but not for spunking. At least not in SOL, which must be a great venue for fans of BJs, judging by its gigantic thread. I once did what don5252 suggested to seajohn--go in and have a look for yourself. One time in SOL was enough for me, but my penis just can't penetrate the idea of being stuck in a mouth when it could be deep in a pussy.
But that's just me. We all have our preferences, and sometimes tend to demonize what we don't enjoy, don't know or understand.
Take a look at the website demoniabangkok.com for a virtual experience if you can't venture into Demonia. I like the introduction on their homepage:
"The main advantage at Demonia is you can meet, talk and get to know someone first in a relaxed no pressure situation. Watch one of the many free shows performed for you or simply hang out at the bar. Then if you desire, arrangements can be made to provide you with a private session with one (or more) of the very beautiful ladies there. Each brings their unique talents to a session with you.
It can be a very bad idea to choose a Mistress or submissive only from her picture on the web. There are many other factors, especially whether she actually is interested in the kind of session you like to be involved in! Personal chemistry is at least as important as looks. This is why Demonia is great for the curious and the experienced. It certainly beats going to those tired old bars and disco’s. There are not any “go go” bar girls with whips. Far from it. They are well-trained and talented ladies who are eager to please.
Demonia has 30 girls and has been in operation for over 5 years. It is the first and original Bar of this type in Thailand (and the Asia region). The bar itself is deceivingly large with many semi private rooms and comfortable seating. The staff are very friendly and the atmosphere is amazing. From the candles to the cages it sets an awesome environment to be in."
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Sexy Bangkok Girls
Posted on: 4:52 am on Dec. 23, 2007
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Cunnilinguist
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I must state from the start that I have not been to this bar or any other bar like it, so I am not qualified to remark on the bar itself.
Not knowing anyone who does go also disqualifies me from remarking about any of the guys that go there.
But I have read with interest all the entries on this particular thread and feel that as a member of the forum, I can assume that it would be O.K. to make my comment.
I also have amongst my friends, ladies who have at one time or another in their lives involved themselves in this work, however briefly.
To have posted such a provocative entry, I suspect that the intentions of the poster have already been realized.
Maybe not. We'll have to wait and see. Or not, as the case may be. I also suspect that he is not as condemnatory as he claims to be. I could be wrong.
And even though many, leapt to defend their positions, choice to participate actively either dominantly or passively, and also others' choice of non-participation, this has all served to open up this thread and for guys to begin to indicate just how much they have explored their own sexuality, their masculinity, their motivations and their own reasoning either way, whether they participate or not.
And that has been of interest, especially since it is generally held in most societies as being a taboo subject.
So, for that, I am grateful.
There seems to be a lot of misconceptions about these places.
There is also a vast degree of misplaced trust in the presumption of consensuality
and what it means to different people in different places, in different circumstances whether inside P4P or outside, within a personal, intimate relationship.
And to have raised this question and responded to it has meant that there are thinking individuals who rationalise and/or question their behaviour, whatever it may be and wherever.
Within personal, intimate relationships,there is give and take, an opening up to one another, a surrendering and a vulnerability, a taking of turns and enabling and empowering, whether you choose to talk about a husband and wife relationship or a couple of friends or a father /daughter, son, mother/daughter, son relationship.
And sometimes people, within these established relationships, emulate and exaggerate these facets to gain pleasure and to give pleasure. This cannot be bought. But some here have acknowledged that the illusion of them can be, which I think is what we have here.
One of the pivotal points made in this thread was one of 'consensuality' the meaning of which, it was so obviously held to be many different things to many people.
So, I see this as having been quite healthy and I, for one thank all the participants, including the initiator, regardless of his intentions,although I think feathers have been ruffled unnecessarily along the way.
I must conclude that I am not in agreement with some of the points made and in some of the assumptions used to falsely extend the 'confrontational' aspects of this exchange.
But it has got me thinking about my own human nature and that of others ; my tolerance and low threshold of enduring pain, my reluctance and readiness to inflict pain
and my views of all aspects of these acts whether private or P4P.
A knife in the hands of a murderer can take a life........in the hands of a surgeon, can save one.
A cupful of water can save a thirsting man or can drown him.
Everything in this life has a potential of being used positively or negatively.
Interestingly, religious nor non-religious members haven't yet brought up the aspects of pain involved in confession and ancient penace, the hair vests, the sack-cloth and ashes, the wrapping up of themselves in barbed wire, the ice cold baths or even the devices and contraptions of the Spanish Inquisition and their methods of finding the 'truth'.
I mention these things, like witch-hunting and the burning at the stake of heretics which in the history of Man is not very much in the past.
And may I say before anyone pounces, that none of these things have anything to do with the venues under discussion. But what links all these things is the underlying reluctance or willingness to inflict pain on others and the reluctance or willingness for others to endure it.
Human sexuality is a widely rich and varied aspect of our lives and we each have our own which to different degrees we have explored.
Let us hope that at least these pages have given others if not ourselves the opportunity to know it more.
Now, all over to all of you.
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 5:48 am on Dec. 23, 2007
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don5252
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the last page & a half starting w/Buttman has really gotten to the point, just to go back to my suggestion SJ give a look see, I paid a visit once to SOL, although that venue doesn't push my buttons, but I thought if I went & talked to a girl there maybe I would find something stimulating, with a completely open minded approach I was really hoping for a successful encounter, well after a conversation w/a 'little angel' there was just no interest or urge to partake in her particular expertise, some I'm sure will wonder, 'WTF' you turned down a bj, like Thailien states different scenarios along with each persons own chemistry produce different results for each individual, for the guys at SOL who think thats the greatest place on earth, or whatever your particular turn on is, good for you, as long as all adult parties invovled agree, & unless something is completely unacceptable (homosexuality) would be one for me) to you, I think to take a look at least once first hand is the best way to gain an educated opinion
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Bangkok Women : Meet Beautiful Thai Girls
Posted on: 8:08 am on Dec. 23, 2007
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submale
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Quote: from seajohn on 4:55 pm on Dec. 22, 2007
Hi, thanks john for your thoughtful contributions to this thread. In answer to one of your questions, some Thai girls are introduced to sm through family members. For example, the owner of CJs has said that his former head Mistress is related to the new head at his dungeon. Many women are also attracted to the job because of the high economic returns. The Thai sm girls at bars like Demonia make a killing compared to other TBGs.
In saying that, some women are just naturals in the industry and everything does not simply come down to money. Many women like (or come to love) the dominant and passive roles in an sm relationship and, indeed, adopt bdsm as a lifestyle course. Again, I would never say that money is not important - but how nice is it to do a job that you love and get paid well for it.
The choice over dom/ sub positions is interesting. In Japan where the differences between dom and sub earnings are minimal, many girls still choose to adopt submissive positions. They adopt these positions because they are real masochists. I have met many such women - perhaps the best example was a girl known as Shiori (Sugar Heel) who is a 24/7 willing slave.
On other points raised by other posters in this thread:
1/ Demonia is a magnificent bar and I would live there if I could  However, to say that it is the only such bar in Asia is a whopper. In Japan, there are dozens of such bars where you can meet and get to know the players. I have been to three in Roppongi alone and they all welcomed foreigners: Sugar Heel, Mistress Bar and Mode at Baroque. 2/ The consent issue is a non issue for the reasons I have mentioned before. As well as the three safeguards mentioned earlier, there is a fourth known as a safe word. Any Dom who continues past that point is breaking all bdsm conventions and the law. And in 20 years, I have never seen this happen once.
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 8:13 pm on Dec. 23, 2007
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Buttman 007
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As I sit here drinking a smooth Czechoslovakian Pilsner, and smoke an exceptionally mild Montecristo, I've come to realize that my previous posts don't make much sense. For that matter, I've never even been to a BDSM club. All my money and sexual energy goes to the Eden Club.
Bad Buttman...Bad Buttman....
Seajohn--you're right. Damnit. Marques de Sade did say that he derived sexual pleasure from inflicting pain and cruelty on women, which has led me to rethink this a bit. Within the confines of a private, personal sexual relationship, if two people want to engage in such behavior, then they have every right to. And I pass no judgement on them. Spank, whip, gag and spleef snail trails all over the walls. No problem.
However, outside of a personal relationship, no woman should have to endure physical pain for money. Whether they are tolerant of it or not, and whether they willingly work at such establishments or not, it should not happen. That is taking the relatively broad spectrum of prostitution to an unfortunate extreme.
Once money is part of the equation, it is perfectly fair to question whether it is truly consensual. This uncertainty can be said for all venues of prostitution, but in the BDSM world of sadism, such uncertainty seems to have much more dire consequences---having to endure pure physical pain. Private life fantasies between truly consenting adults where no money exchanges hands is entirely different. The addition of money distorts what is truly consensual. And for that reason, I don't think sadism and money should be mixed.
Pure physical pain in the manner of Marque de Sade is what has changed my mind. I'm not sure why I didn't think of that before. Normally, when I think of BDSM, I think of role-playing and perhaps spanking a girl over your lap.
I didn't actually think of pure sadistic pain and cruelty in the spirit of Marque de Sade. Enduring that for money doesn't seem appropriate.
Inflicting pain on a woman who only endures it for the money is unequivocally bad. That I know for sure. Thus, it is seemingly impossible to mix sadism and prostitution, because one does not truly know if it is consensual.
Actually, I don't know what I really think about all this anymore. In the larger picture, I don't know where the line is drawn.
All I want is for two twenty-something girls to jiggle and wiggle their perfectly round butts on my face. No one gets hurt.
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Thai Girls : Meet Active Thai Girls
Posted on: 11:26 pm on Dec. 23, 2007
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seajohn
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Mmm, inspiring image.
But yes, it is, I think, a complex matter that you mention. And one that deserves inquiry. Even if the answers are not clear, or none are to be found. I have often wondered if I should just drop it, in fact, since I sincerely doubt I will ever go to Demonia. As was pointed out to me in a conversation with a good friend a couple nights ago, I don't even know where it is. But I do not think any of our members here would knowingly abuse someone, and that is also why I think these queries are appreciated by all (Demoniacs, especially, I would think). So I could not abandon it.
I see, Buttman007, you have brought up another valid aspect to the question, which I would like the fans of Demonia to respond to (and my thanks to submale, as he has been so courteous with me in his explanation above about the divisions and preferences for the roles), all of which are very interesting views and thoughts:
how monetary compensation comprises the principle of consensuality.
This question could be extended to every single thread on this Forum, as you pointed out, Buttman007--that's why it's a good one.
It may seem abstract to some, as well, but it is important that readers do not feel persecuted by it. That's not the intention. However, I really believe that this very thread, by the nature of its venue which is related to the infliction of physical pain (whereas at other venues in Bangkok, the question can usually be only of psychological pain, this one includes the possibility of both), is one in which an investigation into the origins of our proclivities or desires--such as Cunnilingual above (or, yes, M. De Sade expounded) initiated--and the nature of consensuality in our sexual relationships, would be most appreciated by everyone.
I would think that the Demoniacs (may I call you that, fans of Demonia? It has a ring to it) would love discourse and investigation into the origins of their desires.
Well, maybe it is only the abstraction from pure pleasure, or the knowledge of it's exacerbation through pain or restriction, through which BDSM always carries such a Post-Modern aura of intellectuality with it. But I hope these issues can be discussed, now that they have been raised.
Perhaps we owe it to Debaucher for originally raising them in such a dramatic and controversial way, as to spark so much interest in questions which define the very nature of BDSM!
In any event, again, I have no judgment to make here. Just hope these posts have been helpful to fans and non-fans alike.
Have a good Christmas holiday, with the pleasures and people you enjoy.
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Thai Women : Meet Matured Thai Women
Posted on: 12:06 am on Dec. 24, 2007
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don5252
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it was all a lot of good reading, myself not being a big fan of the commercial estalblishments, but more into establishing a relationship, everyone brought up worthwhile points to consider & no matter what venue or talent you look for w/a Thai girl treat them good (I believe thats possible even at Demonia) as it's been said, what goes around comes around, it's Christmas Eve in L.A. & will be treating myself w/a plane ticket, for you lucky ones living in LOS I'm sure everyday is Christmas
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Bangkok Girls : Meet Attractive Thai Girls
Posted on: 2:17 am on Dec. 24, 2007
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